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hello listeners and welcome to the mad

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scientist podcast I am your host Marie

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Mayhew and I am joined today by a very

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very special birthday boy join me in

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wishing a happy birthday to our own dr.

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Chris Cogswell I'm gonna milk this

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birthday for everything it's got I have

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been every like I wake up in the morning

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like it's bills my birthday I better

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have a cupcake for breakfast

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of course lifestyle and the other voice

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you hear is our awesome very special

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guest I don't think she is although

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she's probably feeling like she's aged

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incredibly since having to take on this

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this assignment of working with us it is

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desi from our lead researcher with I Gor

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or do you pronounce it Igor I don't

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pronounce it Oh honestly you've ever had

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to say it yeah it's so desi why don't

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you tell her our beloved listening

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audience just a little bit about

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yourself oh well I think about this oh

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it's okay

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I normally I normally fake something

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true no I obviously do lots of research

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for you guys um which we need and

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appreciate greatly and I do a lot of

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doodling and I cosplay sometimes when I

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have time yep this is my favorite thing

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about you is that you do cosplay because

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you you've posted some pictures on

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Instagram and on Twitter and like you're

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literally fashioning and making all of

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your stuff it seems like from scratch

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yes I'm currently making a suit of armor

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sort of damn it's so intense like it's

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so much more intense than any of my like

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I mean okay podcasting is like a hobby

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but it's like this

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I mean it's a hobby but like we don't

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have to we'd make stuff but it's like

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digital right I have to sit there and

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stand hate and then sand and then paint

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but I could listen to all the podcasts

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while they do it let me go that's it and

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that's that's you know what that's the

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only thing that's important because it

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takes like zero brainpower to just sit

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there and say well your your stuff is

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amazing like what's been your favorite

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recent kind of cosplay character well I

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mean when to divulge I'm more than one

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coming up that's secret no I'm working

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on Sabre from the Fate series and that's

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the armor that I'm making so it's

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probably the most work that I've put

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into one but I had a lot of fun with my

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last bigger project where I got to make

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a wizard hat or witch's hat hmm that's

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cool that's so cool that's so cool

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that is so cool I'm so jealous cuz that

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is a craft like that's a skill on a

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craft I've you know if I get like the

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cookie dough it is already made into

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like little lumps of cookie dough but

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all you have to do is unwrap and

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literally put in the oven I'm all Martha

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Stewart yeah so that's all I got I don't

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cook either it's okay oh let's do it cuz

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you're busy doing all this awesome

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cosplay stuff I'm I'm jealous and so I

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we want to see pictures and also please

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tell the people where they can find all

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of your wonderful designs which are

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awesome and you need to get t-shirts and

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other things immediately people right

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after listening to yes so all of my

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things are available either on RedBubble

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or designed by humans under the name

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Desdemona with a Y so it's des D Y mo na

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and everywhere else I'm either does

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Damona or sprinkle face that is true

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that is true it's very it's very hard to

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keep the tags on her because it's like

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too many names to me Elias is what are

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you hiding and she's incognito of it's a

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very it's so mysterious

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mr. clearly hiding something terrible

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just hiding from my students and my day

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job yeah that's okay I understand I know

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that game good stuff all right well this

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episode marine we're talking about the

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color blue the color blue probably like

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my third favorite color it's vicious

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awesome you know third favorite you're

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like this is my 27th favorite it's

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alright okay I'm a fan so listen I'm

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afraid of a lot of colors I gotta say

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color of my favorite Pokemon Vaporeon it

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is it's a good color blues a good color

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now the reason that we're doing this

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episode is because we des actually

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suggested to us this topic because there

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had been some stuff going around on the

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internet where people were claiming that

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there was no evidence for the color blue

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existing basically before the Middle

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Ages and it kind of comes from like that

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stupid dress that everyone remembers you

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know dressed and talking about yeah the

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one that was supposed to be blue and

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gold or like white and gold or something

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like that whatever and so yeah and it's

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it's a really interesting blue is it

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gold is it blue is it gold it's it's a

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whole big thing and it's a really

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interesting concept because this

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suggests something really I think it's

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fascinating because it gets into

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something deeper than just the color

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itself but more about cognition and how

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do we even communicate cognition to each

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other and do we do we ever really

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communicate cognition in that way so

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that's what this episode is about and

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I'm excited to get into it absolutely

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[Music]

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welcome to the mad scientist podcast

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today's episode

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you know this boondoggle excellent ok so

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before we get into arguing if the if the

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dress was truly blue or gold or the

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abstracts behind color and sort of what

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are the social constructs around color

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how do your eyes actually see color so a

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little bit of the science background is

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among vertebrates which humans and apes

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are amongst one of them one

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classification the result of having

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specialized light receptors so these

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structures in your eye is known as rods

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and cones in the back of your eye in the

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retina so rods are extremely sensitive

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to even the most dim of light but

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provide very coarse fuzzy colorless

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images right the cones provide the

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sharpest images and are responsible for

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the ability to see color but the only

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function effectively when the light is

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bright right so as a consequence Verte

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all vertebrates such as ourselves and

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apes are more or less blind to color in

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the dark of the night right so if you go

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outside and you're trying to find your

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car after drinking in a club and it's

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like 4 a.m. you're gonna have a harder

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time finding it not just because you've

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had 14 jello shots but because your eyes

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are not wired to actually see color when

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it is dark out yes you're like how

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that's going like I had to work that in

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summary well you know interesting

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because their thing being too is if you

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are color blind you cannot tell the

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difference between sherry jello shots

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and lime green jello shots very true so

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just let that just let that cultivate in

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the old noggin for a little very dream

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yes okay so different types of cones are

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tuned to different portions of the

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narrow vision of the spectrum and

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electromagnetic radiation right

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near the surface of the cones in your

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eyes are very sensitive proteins called

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protein pigments called ops ops and

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options this is probably options you

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probably know all this not really not

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enough to say hablo really absence okay

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so since options are different cones

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they're sensitive to different

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wavelengths of lights and so colors are

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identified by the brain based on these

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responses from these options so a

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wavelength comes in these options

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translate it into your brain track and

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so far oh yeah absolutely sounding great

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yes so humans vertebrates are basically

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trichromatic so we have three colors

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that we can definitely see the

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difference between and three different

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kinds of options on our cones which

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allow us to discriminate between blue

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green and red so those are the big ones

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and some people think that this comes

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about through the necessity to be able

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to identify ripe food or berries or be

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able to use the colors to hunt and

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gather sure with invertebrates sure sure

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now what's really interesting with these

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so just because you can just because

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physically you have the ability to take

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in the information of a color doesn't

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actually mean that you can sense a color

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or even so this gets into the kind of

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really interesting philosophical

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territory of what does it mean to is

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gathering information enough or like

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what does it mean to know something what

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does it mean to recognize something and

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be able to use that information in a way

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that we would consider knowing right so

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you might be able to you know you might

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be able to physically sense the color

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red but if your brain doesn't have

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a place where colors are processed just

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because you can physically take in the

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color red doesn't mean that your mind

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can actually deal with that color right

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in the same way just because you just

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because you can hear music doesn't mean

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that you are a musician or you can

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compose it in a way right you don't

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really know music you might hear music

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you don't necessarily know musical

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theory or whatever but on top of that -

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there is a difference philosophically

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between

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experiencing something and are

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physically experiencing something and

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then cognate in it or thinking it were

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so I guess I guess that realized think

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yeah so I guess the best example this is

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again just because you see like there

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might be something in front of you that

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has no meaning to you right you can have

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a word in front of you that means

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something in someone else's language and

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just but just because you're seeing

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those letters written doesn't mean that

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you're actually understanding the word

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right and that's kind of analogous to

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what might occur if you say could not

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perceive color you might be able to see

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something that is green or blue or

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whatever but you won't be able to

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recognize that as a color or as a

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differentiating factor you know as like

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another piece of information on top of

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this other thing now the question of if

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colors exist or not is a really

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interesting philosophical question

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actually the but that's that's something

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we're gonna get into more later but

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basically what we're trying to lay the

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groundwork here for is this idea of a

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just seeing a color physically being

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able to mechanically see a color isn't

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really what we're talking about here

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when we say that blue doesn't exist

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right mm-hmm

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it's it's something just like it's like

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jello shots all right so you see a

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perhaps a green or a red jello shot and

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you might think okay

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my vertebrate mind thinks that that's

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edible it's a berry and it's good for me

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but you are processing it you there's no

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one way of processing that information

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hmm right because red or green or blue

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the color of a lot of different things

272
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:11,060
Red's the color of a stop sign Red's the

273
00:13:08,330 --> 00:13:14,710
color of a jello shot

274
00:13:11,059 --> 00:13:18,519
so it's contextually how are you able to

275
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:21,560
identify that that's that color is

276
00:13:18,519 --> 00:13:23,389
context ly tied to the symbol that it

277
00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,829
represents and there's a lot of

278
00:13:23,389 --> 00:13:26,330
different symbols and symbols mean

279
00:13:24,830 --> 00:13:28,580
different things throughout different

280
00:13:26,330 --> 00:13:34,160
cultures right right and so this concept

281
00:13:28,580 --> 00:13:37,129
of this concept of color as a so for

282
00:13:34,159 --> 00:13:40,669
example right we all think that the sky

283
00:13:37,129 --> 00:13:43,309
we obviously the sky is existed since

284
00:13:40,669 --> 00:13:45,229
the beginning of time beginning of time

285
00:13:43,309 --> 00:13:46,699
this is the beginning of Earth since the

286
00:13:45,230 --> 00:13:49,100
beginning of the planet this is the

287
00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:50,780
beginning of humans the sky has existed

288
00:13:49,100 --> 00:13:51,769
in pretty much the same way right I

289
00:13:50,779 --> 00:13:55,039
think we can all agree on that

290
00:13:51,769 --> 00:13:57,549
yes okay that means that the sky has

291
00:13:55,039 --> 00:14:01,219
been blue this whole time on good days

292
00:13:57,549 --> 00:14:02,449
yes yes yeah am I in yes yeah we're

293
00:14:01,220 --> 00:14:04,790
gonna buy in we're gonna say yeah the

294
00:14:02,450 --> 00:14:07,820
color blue has always been that color

295
00:14:04,789 --> 00:14:12,409
this whole time now the challenge though

296
00:14:07,820 --> 00:14:14,000
is that without other things to come so

297
00:14:12,409 --> 00:14:17,929
there's there's two ways to look at this

298
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:20,870
thing this idea of color the color blue

299
00:14:17,929 --> 00:14:24,289
debate basically is coming about because

300
00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:27,289
it seems like the color blue the word

301
00:14:24,289 --> 00:14:33,099
for blue doesn't exist in cultures until

302
00:14:27,289 --> 00:14:35,779
a long time after they form right so the

303
00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:40,279
so a good example of this that's given

304
00:14:35,779 --> 00:14:42,019
is the Greeks right now supposedly in

305
00:14:40,279 --> 00:14:45,049
this book by Jules

306
00:14:42,019 --> 00:14:49,370
Davidoff or not dual Jules Davidoff this

307
00:14:45,049 --> 00:14:50,479
is a different book in this basically

308
00:14:49,370 --> 00:14:52,070
there's there was this book that was

309
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:56,899
formed or this book that was written

310
00:14:52,070 --> 00:14:59,510
about the color blue right and seemingly

311
00:14:56,899 --> 00:15:02,199
that the color blue didn't exist in

312
00:14:59,509 --> 00:15:04,100
literature for quite some time right

313
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,920
mm-hmm and so they said for instance

314
00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:11,960
that um in Homer's Odyssey he describes

315
00:15:06,919 --> 00:15:13,759
the the ocean has wine dark right and he

316
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:16,519
describes these other things in kind of

317
00:15:13,759 --> 00:15:18,039
these weird ways like you know he just

318
00:15:16,519 --> 00:15:19,480
doesn't seem to mesh

319
00:15:18,039 --> 00:15:21,549
the way that we think of things now so

320
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,710
for instance this is a quote from the

321
00:15:21,549 --> 00:15:25,629
Sun the this is from the third book of

322
00:15:23,710 --> 00:15:27,670
the Odyssey where Homer talks about the

323
00:15:25,629 --> 00:15:30,549
ascent of the Sun God Helios he says and

324
00:15:27,669 --> 00:15:33,459
now the Sun leaving the beauteous water

325
00:15:30,549 --> 00:15:35,679
surface sprang up into the brazen heaven

326
00:15:33,460 --> 00:15:38,080
to give light to the more immortals and

327
00:15:35,679 --> 00:15:40,719
the mortal men on the earth he doesn't

328
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:43,240
mention the color blue the blue sky of

329
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:45,570
the Greek islands right which we think

330
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:48,190
of as being so stunningly obviously blue

331
00:15:45,570 --> 00:15:49,930
that for us calling it blue is like a

332
00:15:48,190 --> 00:15:52,960
second thing raised it's second nature

333
00:15:49,929 --> 00:15:54,759
almost right yeah and he also doesn't

334
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,320
easily associate right and he also

335
00:15:54,759 --> 00:15:57,700
doesn't described the sea in that way

336
00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:00,550
this is another quote from the Odyssey

337
00:15:57,700 --> 00:16:02,830
he says quote him I saved when he was

338
00:16:00,549 --> 00:16:04,870
most writing the keel and all alone for

339
00:16:02,830 --> 00:16:07,150
Zeus had struck his Swift ship with his

340
00:16:04,870 --> 00:16:11,169
bright thunderbolt and had shattered it

341
00:16:07,149 --> 00:16:14,319
in the midst of the wine-dark sea again

342
00:16:11,169 --> 00:16:15,879
no mention of the color blue hmm that

343
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,560
seemed weird to these guys and so they

344
00:16:15,879 --> 00:16:19,230
looked through Greek literature and

345
00:16:17,559 --> 00:16:22,389
found that actually there really was no

346
00:16:19,230 --> 00:16:24,909
mention of the color blue anywhere well

347
00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:27,879
and the Greek word so the Greeks did

348
00:16:24,909 --> 00:16:30,579
have words that could mean dark blue but

349
00:16:27,879 --> 00:16:33,039
they also represented other colors so

350
00:16:30,580 --> 00:16:36,550
their word for dark blue Cayenne 'us

351
00:16:33,039 --> 00:16:41,019
pianos could also mean dark green violet

352
00:16:36,549 --> 00:16:45,779
black brown which is kind of a pretty

353
00:16:41,019 --> 00:16:49,299
big swath of the spectrums right yeah

354
00:16:45,779 --> 00:16:53,189
and their word for light blue glucose

355
00:16:49,299 --> 00:16:58,479
could also be light green gray or yellow

356
00:16:53,190 --> 00:17:00,310
so kind of a fairly again that that

357
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:03,490
doesn't really mean it doesn't really

358
00:17:00,309 --> 00:17:07,720
mean or is evocative of

359
00:17:03,490 --> 00:17:11,199
a of the Mediterranean water or of the

360
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:14,410
sky in fact it could be for other colors

361
00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:17,019
just as easily yeah now this this really

362
00:17:14,410 --> 00:17:19,209
started with the book a studies on homer

363
00:17:17,019 --> 00:17:22,119
in the Homeric Age by william ewart

364
00:17:19,209 --> 00:17:25,750
gladstone and that book came out in 1858

365
00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:27,549
and it's not really a super well known

366
00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:29,650
book except for this except for this

367
00:17:27,549 --> 00:17:31,750
chapter this area where they talk about

368
00:17:29,650 --> 00:17:34,600
the problem of coloring

369
00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:36,730
Odyssey right and the problem of color

370
00:17:34,599 --> 00:17:39,730
in the ancient Greek you know writing

371
00:17:36,730 --> 00:17:41,559
now we're gonna there is an interesting

372
00:17:39,730 --> 00:17:43,450
there's an interesting answer to this

373
00:17:41,559 --> 00:17:46,119
that actually I haven't even shared with

374
00:17:43,450 --> 00:17:48,130
you or des yet for this episode so I'm

375
00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,839
hoping I'm hoping that it'll just be

376
00:17:48,130 --> 00:17:53,710
like you know I'll flip the table over

377
00:17:49,839 --> 00:17:55,149
thing at the end here but then we'll all

378
00:17:53,710 --> 00:17:56,500
have jello shots I'm telling you this

379
00:17:55,150 --> 00:17:58,750
big great blue ones

380
00:17:56,500 --> 00:18:00,819
it's who this is running theme people

381
00:17:58,750 --> 00:18:02,319
it's and so this this led to a bunch of

382
00:18:00,819 --> 00:18:04,000
you know when this cop so this

383
00:18:02,319 --> 00:18:06,669
controversy kind of comes about pretty

384
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,950
regularly almost kind of and so when it

385
00:18:06,670 --> 00:18:11,560
came about more recently he wasn't in it

386
00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:14,259
was in an article in Business Insider

387
00:18:11,559 --> 00:18:15,879
right and it was it was titled no one

388
00:18:14,259 --> 00:18:17,950
could describe the color blue until

389
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:22,900
modern times by Kevin Lauria who's

390
00:18:17,950 --> 00:18:24,279
published in 2015 now that's again it's

391
00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:25,810
it's saying that they couldn't have

392
00:18:24,279 --> 00:18:28,240
described the color blue but wheat but

393
00:18:25,809 --> 00:18:30,549
they they saw blue right right

394
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,230
they must have they must have seen the

395
00:18:30,549 --> 00:18:35,289
color blue so then what are they talking

396
00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:36,940
about here the culturally could not

397
00:18:35,289 --> 00:18:38,799
describe the color blue or draw the

398
00:18:36,940 --> 00:18:42,720
difference between blue and other colors

399
00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:46,690
until they were able to replicate it in

400
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:48,160
studies or from nature in studies okay

401
00:18:46,690 --> 00:18:52,779
so that's one that's one possibility

402
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:54,940
right that they did not maybe so

403
00:18:52,779 --> 00:18:58,359
let me rephrase the argument a little

404
00:18:54,940 --> 00:19:03,250
bit the argument here would be that the

405
00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:04,689
Greeks had so few reasons to describe

406
00:19:03,250 --> 00:19:07,630
the color blue that they just didn't

407
00:19:04,690 --> 00:19:13,059
they used other colors right it's just

408
00:19:07,630 --> 00:19:14,770
like mmm not worth noticing yeah yeah I

409
00:19:13,059 --> 00:19:16,960
don't know it seems like there's a lot

410
00:19:14,769 --> 00:19:20,920
of blue out there you'd kind of you

411
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:22,269
would think so thank you come up with

412
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,980
something you'd think so but that is

413
00:19:22,269 --> 00:19:27,519
actually one argument that's made about

414
00:19:23,980 --> 00:19:31,299
this right that um that the color blue

415
00:19:27,519 --> 00:19:33,039
is sort of this like it was such a you

416
00:19:31,299 --> 00:19:35,230
know because really in nature besides

417
00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:38,500
the sea in the sky right

418
00:19:35,230 --> 00:19:40,630
what other Blues are there hmm

419
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:43,240
well you don't see it food there's

420
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:45,549
flowers maybe this and a lot of the

421
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:48,778
flowers or light blues

422
00:19:45,548 --> 00:19:51,759
that are kind of closer to maybe greens

423
00:19:48,778 --> 00:19:54,519
or darker blues which are closer to

424
00:19:51,759 --> 00:19:56,649
Purple's yeah I would say that violet is

425
00:19:54,519 --> 00:19:58,690
definitely out there an uneven violets a

426
00:19:56,648 --> 00:20:01,199
hard one to find kind of in nature you

427
00:19:58,690 --> 00:20:03,548
think like red like red is only in blood

428
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,769
right really as far as I can tell in

429
00:20:03,548 --> 00:20:08,829
terms of like natural coloration red for

430
00:20:05,769 --> 00:20:11,288
blood and the main rocks right clay clay

431
00:20:08,829 --> 00:20:13,178
could have some soil that's close enough

432
00:20:11,288 --> 00:20:15,069
but blue but blue is a pretty hard

433
00:20:13,179 --> 00:20:16,179
pigment pigment to make right the only

434
00:20:15,069 --> 00:20:21,038
people that really had blue were the

435
00:20:16,179 --> 00:20:22,840
Egyptians hmm right so that's one which

436
00:20:21,038 --> 00:20:24,970
I think are still before the Middle Ages

437
00:20:22,839 --> 00:20:26,858
absolutely absolutely it's a wandering

438
00:20:24,970 --> 00:20:30,819
little bed we're a little bit a little

439
00:20:26,858 --> 00:20:33,158
bit before Murray so what are you need

440
00:20:30,819 --> 00:20:35,259
that they culturally didn't ever need to

441
00:20:33,159 --> 00:20:37,389
describe blue so they just didn't right

442
00:20:35,259 --> 00:20:40,269
and actually that's a that's a spouse

443
00:20:37,388 --> 00:20:43,048
pretty that's that's kind of I think the

444
00:20:40,269 --> 00:20:45,190
position almost taken by most classical

445
00:20:43,048 --> 00:20:46,628
experts as far as I could tell in

446
00:20:45,190 --> 00:20:49,028
reading I don't know if you guys had the

447
00:20:46,628 --> 00:20:51,488
same experience pretty much where they

448
00:20:49,028 --> 00:20:53,589
argued that like for the Greeks color

449
00:20:51,489 --> 00:20:55,179
wasn't about the hue it was about the

450
00:20:53,589 --> 00:20:58,538
darkness or lightness of the color

451
00:20:55,179 --> 00:21:01,570
mm-hmm right and so to the Greeks saying

452
00:20:58,538 --> 00:21:03,308
that something was so this kind of gets

453
00:21:01,569 --> 00:21:04,658
into my table flipping moment almost but

454
00:21:03,308 --> 00:21:09,128
Oh God

455
00:21:04,659 --> 00:21:10,330
all right brace for it so okay so is it

456
00:21:09,128 --> 00:21:11,829
gonna be it's gonna be a reference to

457
00:21:10,329 --> 00:21:16,449
it's always sunny it won't be I promise

458
00:21:11,829 --> 00:21:18,460
not this time oh come on ma'am so V

459
00:21:16,450 --> 00:21:20,379
sleep at the wheel with those telling

460
00:21:18,460 --> 00:21:22,119
you but we're making Arrested

461
00:21:20,378 --> 00:21:25,028
Development references this time oh

462
00:21:22,118 --> 00:21:32,829
right because we blew ourselves that's

463
00:21:25,028 --> 00:21:35,169
right like Tobias dr. fume K Oh we're

464
00:21:32,829 --> 00:21:36,878
killing it right now we're killing it so

465
00:21:35,169 --> 00:21:39,038
this argument would be that the color

466
00:21:36,878 --> 00:21:40,839
blue so we have this argument that it's

467
00:21:39,038 --> 00:21:42,339
it's a cultural thing we also have

468
00:21:40,839 --> 00:21:44,888
another argument that's kind of silly

469
00:21:42,339 --> 00:21:46,480
which is that we we literally physically

470
00:21:44,888 --> 00:21:50,108
did not see the color blue like we were

471
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,940
colorblind stare straight up no evidence

472
00:21:50,108 --> 00:21:55,118
for any of that

473
00:21:50,940 --> 00:21:57,639
ridiculousness well in science wise its

474
00:21:55,118 --> 00:21:58,959
disproven you have a certain amount of

475
00:21:57,638 --> 00:22:01,990
rods and cones that

476
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:04,240
in that are you have yeah so you do see

477
00:22:01,990 --> 00:22:08,140
yeah now a mixture of these two ideas

478
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:10,559
though is that human your brain the

479
00:22:08,140 --> 00:22:12,430
whether you actually perceive colors or

480
00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:14,649
categorize them in some ways is

481
00:22:12,430 --> 00:22:18,279
described by the way that you will you

482
00:22:14,650 --> 00:22:19,900
learn as a child right mm-hmm this is

483
00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:21,819
kind of the same argument that goes into

484
00:22:19,900 --> 00:22:25,360
you like nature versus nurture kind of

485
00:22:21,819 --> 00:22:27,309
stuff right where if you had a kid if

486
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,859
you if you had a if you had a child who

487
00:22:27,309 --> 00:22:31,329
lived in the jungle their entire you

488
00:22:29,859 --> 00:22:34,000
know with no human contact they just

489
00:22:31,329 --> 00:22:36,579
live like a wild existence you know

490
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,170
almost like raised by wolves right would

491
00:22:36,579 --> 00:22:41,019
you be able to teach them language if

492
00:22:38,170 --> 00:22:42,400
you got them after the age of five right

493
00:22:41,019 --> 00:22:44,500
over the age of ten in the age of

494
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:47,680
fifteen or right like where is the

495
00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:52,630
cutoff between being able to learn

496
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:55,900
language versus not being able to write

497
00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:59,200
and then on top of that the question of

498
00:22:55,900 --> 00:23:00,759
is the way that we learn are the things

499
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:04,000
that are available to us from a young

500
00:23:00,759 --> 00:23:05,319
age that we get used to do those in some

501
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,740
way shape the way that our brain

502
00:23:05,319 --> 00:23:11,200
perceives the world around us so is that

503
00:23:08,740 --> 00:23:13,200
is it the world itself that changes the

504
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,730
way that we think so is our cognitive

505
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:19,240
framework developed by the world around

506
00:23:15,730 --> 00:23:21,430
us or do we build the world around us or

507
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:25,089
in a way that matches our cognitive

508
00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:27,400
framework right and so this argument

509
00:23:25,089 --> 00:23:29,589
part of this argument would be if you

510
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:32,530
grew up without the notion that the

511
00:23:29,589 --> 00:23:34,449
color blue was a concept you might have

512
00:23:32,529 --> 00:23:37,149
a much harder time differentiating the

513
00:23:34,450 --> 00:23:39,400
color blue from greens and reds and

514
00:23:37,150 --> 00:23:45,700
yellows then someone who grew up with

515
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:47,140
the color blue and in some ways that's

516
00:23:45,700 --> 00:23:49,330
actually in some ways that's actually

517
00:23:47,140 --> 00:23:55,600
borne out by the body by the research by

518
00:23:49,329 --> 00:23:58,509
the evidence right so they did studies

519
00:23:55,599 --> 00:24:00,459
with they did studies in Namibia where

520
00:23:58,509 --> 00:24:02,288
the Himba tribe this was done by Jules

521
00:24:00,460 --> 00:24:04,750
David off a psychologist from

522
00:24:02,288 --> 00:24:06,429
Goldsmith's University of London and so

523
00:24:04,750 --> 00:24:09,009
this this culture this this tribe

524
00:24:06,429 --> 00:24:11,048
doesn't have a does not have a word for

525
00:24:09,009 --> 00:24:14,910
blue and they don't make a distinction

526
00:24:11,048 --> 00:24:17,889
between green and blue right hmm and so

527
00:24:14,910 --> 00:24:20,048
this test basically was you have a big

528
00:24:17,890 --> 00:24:21,580
you know you have a bunch of green tiles

529
00:24:20,048 --> 00:24:24,548
then you have a blue tile in the center

530
00:24:21,579 --> 00:24:26,019
of them and trying to try to ask them

531
00:24:24,548 --> 00:24:30,759
well which tile is a different color

532
00:24:26,019 --> 00:24:33,038
here right and they were not able to

533
00:24:30,759 --> 00:24:36,029
tell the difference they could not get

534
00:24:33,038 --> 00:24:38,679
the blue tile from the green tile hmm

535
00:24:36,029 --> 00:24:40,720
suggesting that our color perception is

536
00:24:38,679 --> 00:24:42,038
linked to what we're taught and linked

537
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,230
to our language and link to our

538
00:24:42,038 --> 00:24:47,048
literally link to how we're taught

539
00:24:44,230 --> 00:24:48,370
cognition right mm-hmm the event they've

540
00:24:47,048 --> 00:24:51,548
had other studies like this too so

541
00:24:48,369 --> 00:24:54,189
there's an MIT study in 2007 that showed

542
00:24:51,548 --> 00:24:57,038
that native Russian speakers so there is

543
00:24:54,190 --> 00:24:58,509
no there is no word for blue and Russian

544
00:24:57,038 --> 00:25:02,048
there's a word for light blue in a world

545
00:24:58,509 --> 00:25:05,019
a word for dark blue and what they found

546
00:25:02,048 --> 00:25:06,849
was that actually these native Russians

547
00:25:05,019 --> 00:25:08,619
are have a much easier time

548
00:25:06,849 --> 00:25:12,119
distinguishing between light blue and

549
00:25:08,619 --> 00:25:14,199
dark blue then English speakers are so

550
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,538
it's kind of a chicken and the egg thing

551
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,429
if you don't have a word for the color

552
00:25:16,538 --> 00:25:20,829
blue you might not see the color blue as

553
00:25:18,429 --> 00:25:21,940
easily right and so you won't have the

554
00:25:20,829 --> 00:25:23,889
color blue you won't have the word for

555
00:25:21,940 --> 00:25:27,100
the color blue right and at the same

556
00:25:23,890 --> 00:25:28,840
time that even if you did notice it even

557
00:25:27,099 --> 00:25:31,658
if you know functionally you were able

558
00:25:28,839 --> 00:25:33,699
to see the color blue you might not make

559
00:25:31,659 --> 00:25:36,549
a distinction between blue and black

560
00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:39,490
let's say or blue and purple or blue and

561
00:25:36,548 --> 00:25:42,808
dark or something if you'd if your brain

562
00:25:39,490 --> 00:25:47,409
wasn't trained to pick out that color

563
00:25:42,808 --> 00:25:49,389
hmm if it couldn't contextualise why

564
00:25:47,409 --> 00:25:50,890
picking out that color was important

565
00:25:49,390 --> 00:25:52,419
exactly draw a distinction from

566
00:25:50,890 --> 00:25:54,070
everything exactly it goes back to that

567
00:25:52,419 --> 00:25:56,500
initial thing that you said Marie which

568
00:25:54,069 --> 00:25:58,119
is people you know one of the eyes ideas

569
00:25:56,500 --> 00:26:00,369
of why we developed the ability to see

570
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,949
color is because it helped us be better

571
00:26:00,369 --> 00:26:05,918
hunter-gatherers mm-hmm right helped us

572
00:26:02,950 --> 00:26:08,769
survive better we could if a plant was a

573
00:26:05,919 --> 00:26:09,430
bright color we would know not to eat it

574
00:26:08,769 --> 00:26:14,009
because it was

575
00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:17,140
poisonous right or whatever mm-hmm it's

576
00:26:14,009 --> 00:26:18,789
again though your brain is constantly

577
00:26:17,140 --> 00:26:20,860
like the things you see your brain is

578
00:26:18,789 --> 00:26:23,159
constantly filtering filtering out bad

579
00:26:20,859 --> 00:26:26,559
information or extraneous information

580
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:28,269
right mm-hmm and it's the same reason

581
00:26:26,559 --> 00:26:29,829
that that stupid dress seems to be two

582
00:26:28,269 --> 00:26:33,759
different colors to different people

583
00:26:29,829 --> 00:26:35,439
right it's because your brain it's

584
00:26:33,759 --> 00:26:37,720
basically an optical illusion right your

585
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,190
brain is kind of forgetting or not

586
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,350
forgetting your brain is just ignoring

587
00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:44,220
the color blue because you've never

588
00:26:41,349 --> 00:26:47,638
trained your brain to see it

589
00:26:44,220 --> 00:26:49,889
or you have already made up your mind

590
00:26:47,638 --> 00:26:52,408
what color of a dress is going to be

591
00:26:49,888 --> 00:26:54,750
before you even see it maybe based on

592
00:26:52,409 --> 00:26:56,759
what you've read yeah absolutely

593
00:26:54,750 --> 00:27:00,509
so you're yourself yourself editing yeah

594
00:26:56,759 --> 00:27:02,538
which is yeah it's but it's so crazy

595
00:27:00,509 --> 00:27:05,190
because going back to the Greeks

596
00:27:02,538 --> 00:27:07,288
basically they're surrounded by the

597
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:10,500
Mediterranean which is blue they're

598
00:27:07,288 --> 00:27:14,220
surrounded by sky which is blue but they

599
00:27:10,500 --> 00:27:16,200
have no word for blue won't see so it's

600
00:27:14,220 --> 00:27:19,679
like is there almost is it almost like

601
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:22,528
an if is it almost just too much blue

602
00:27:19,679 --> 00:27:25,559
and so is it just becomes either sea and

603
00:27:22,528 --> 00:27:29,759
sky and there it is agnostic about color

604
00:27:25,558 --> 00:27:30,720
okay which could be Homer Homer was the

605
00:27:29,759 --> 00:27:33,569
other one that came up with

606
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:36,240
rosy-fingered dawn right which is what I

607
00:27:33,569 --> 00:27:38,878
remember from from all my early Greek

608
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:42,028
texts from like a long time ago in

609
00:27:38,878 --> 00:27:45,388
college which speaks to like rosy finger

610
00:27:42,028 --> 00:27:47,638
so it's red in the sunrise but no no

611
00:27:45,388 --> 00:27:49,408
language around other around blue but

612
00:27:47,638 --> 00:27:50,638
you're about ready to flip the table so

613
00:27:49,409 --> 00:27:53,519
hold on hold on

614
00:27:50,638 --> 00:27:57,199
flip it I'm embracing okay so this is

615
00:27:53,519 --> 00:28:00,269
from this is from this is from

616
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,500
philosophers and the color blue mm-hmm

617
00:28:00,269 --> 00:28:04,019
okay

618
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:07,919
this is chapter one of a of a book that

619
00:28:04,019 --> 00:28:10,230
I found online mm-hmm and so here is the

620
00:28:07,919 --> 00:28:13,830
quote that I'm gonna say here okay

621
00:28:10,230 --> 00:28:15,720
quote careful linguistic study has

622
00:28:13,829 --> 00:28:18,109
resolved this riddle by revealing that

623
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,399
two ancient Greeks including Aristotle

624
00:28:18,109 --> 00:28:23,519
luminosity was more important than hue

625
00:28:20,398 --> 00:28:25,739
in characterizing color for example the

626
00:28:23,519 --> 00:28:27,419
Greek word MELAS and Lucas can be

627
00:28:25,740 --> 00:28:30,298
translated not only as black and white

628
00:28:27,419 --> 00:28:32,278
but also as dark and light the use of

629
00:28:30,298 --> 00:28:34,619
the color term cyan O's is equally

630
00:28:32,278 --> 00:28:36,659
ambiguous it is usually translated as

631
00:28:34,619 --> 00:28:40,018
blue and gave rise to our modern color

632
00:28:36,659 --> 00:28:41,879
term cyan mm-hmm cyanosis referred to a

633
00:28:40,019 --> 00:28:43,769
dark color in general and was used to

634
00:28:41,878 --> 00:28:46,109
describe emeralds but it could also

635
00:28:43,769 --> 00:28:48,480
manifest itself as a blue and could even

636
00:28:46,109 --> 00:28:50,308
mean black the difference between black

637
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,110
and blue then was not so crucial to the

638
00:28:50,308 --> 00:28:54,210
Greeks it was much more important to

639
00:28:52,109 --> 00:28:56,250
them that blue bordered on black or dark

640
00:28:54,210 --> 00:28:57,319
and that both of them constituted the

641
00:28:56,250 --> 00:28:59,720
dark end of a scale

642
00:28:57,319 --> 00:29:01,970
colors if we keep this meaning of the

643
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,649
word chaos in mind then much that is

644
00:29:01,970 --> 00:29:05,690
found in Greek literature becomes clear

645
00:29:03,648 --> 00:29:08,388
in a book on precious stones

646
00:29:05,690 --> 00:29:11,360
Aristotle's pupil Theophrastus describes

647
00:29:08,388 --> 00:29:13,668
the blue lapis lazuli as Keon owes

648
00:29:11,359 --> 00:29:15,500
colored homer's iliad on the other hand

649
00:29:13,669 --> 00:29:18,259
could describe not only the color of

650
00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:20,990
steel but also the probably black hair

651
00:29:18,259 --> 00:29:23,450
of King Priam some Hector as Keyon owes

652
00:29:20,990 --> 00:29:26,509
a cloak can also be can owes colored a

653
00:29:23,450 --> 00:29:30,980
dark-hued veil then which was no raiment

654
00:29:26,509 --> 00:29:32,419
more black end quote so the issue isn't

655
00:29:30,980 --> 00:29:34,190
that they didn't see black is that they

656
00:29:32,419 --> 00:29:36,980
didn't describe it they just didn't care

657
00:29:34,190 --> 00:29:39,889
about the word for blue or they had no

658
00:29:36,980 --> 00:29:43,009
particular need for this stuff and

659
00:29:39,888 --> 00:29:47,628
actually this comes back to Aristotle's

660
00:29:43,009 --> 00:29:50,210
theory of colors right so on Aristotle's

661
00:29:47,628 --> 00:29:53,558
on the census he describes a number of

662
00:29:50,210 --> 00:29:55,548
colors and he he breaks them up into

663
00:29:53,558 --> 00:29:58,128
basically he breaks them up into the

664
00:29:55,548 --> 00:29:59,778
darken or the or the light end right and

665
00:29:58,128 --> 00:30:02,808
so the color scale went from white

666
00:29:59,778 --> 00:30:04,730
yellow red purple green blue and black

667
00:30:02,808 --> 00:30:10,158
and he actually does specifically

668
00:30:04,730 --> 00:30:12,919
describe blue hmm okay now this is a

669
00:30:10,159 --> 00:30:14,210
quote from on the census quote one

670
00:30:12,919 --> 00:30:16,100
possibility is that white and black

671
00:30:14,210 --> 00:30:17,778
particles alternate in such a way that

672
00:30:16,099 --> 00:30:20,178
while each by itself is invisible

673
00:30:17,778 --> 00:30:22,759
because of its smallness the compound of

674
00:30:20,179 --> 00:30:24,889
the two is visible this cannot appear

675
00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:26,929
either as white or as black but since it

676
00:30:24,888 --> 00:30:29,089
must have some color and cannot have

677
00:30:26,929 --> 00:30:31,610
either of these it must evidently be

678
00:30:29,089 --> 00:30:33,769
some kind of mixture ie some other kind

679
00:30:31,609 --> 00:30:35,449
of color it is thus possible to believe

680
00:30:33,769 --> 00:30:37,399
that there are more colors than just

681
00:30:35,450 --> 00:30:38,389
white and black and that their number is

682
00:30:37,398 --> 00:30:40,939
due to the proportion of their

683
00:30:38,388 --> 00:30:43,428
components and so what he basically did

684
00:30:40,940 --> 00:30:46,370
was he said okay well we're gonna call

685
00:30:43,429 --> 00:30:47,960
white is pure white particles and then

686
00:30:46,369 --> 00:30:51,288
yellow would be a lot of white and a

687
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:53,538
little bit of black red would be you

688
00:30:51,288 --> 00:30:55,849
know slightly more black but still

689
00:30:53,538 --> 00:30:58,308
mostly white purple would be the equal

690
00:30:55,849 --> 00:31:02,740
mixing of the two and then the other way

691
00:30:58,308 --> 00:31:06,288
right mm-hmm and so Aristotle had

692
00:31:02,740 --> 00:31:08,269
Aristotle had actually a color wheel

693
00:31:06,288 --> 00:31:11,089
that included blue and included violet

694
00:31:08,269 --> 00:31:14,269
included green red yellow and

695
00:31:11,089 --> 00:31:16,279
actually Theophrastus specifically goes

696
00:31:14,269 --> 00:31:18,230
into this a little bit more when he

697
00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:20,930
talks about the cut he specifically

698
00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:23,660
discusses the color of the sky and the

699
00:31:20,930 --> 00:31:27,230
color of the ocean and how the reason

700
00:31:23,660 --> 00:31:30,259
that the the sky itself appears to be

701
00:31:27,230 --> 00:31:32,809
blue just like the ocean it's because

702
00:31:30,259 --> 00:31:35,049
water and air are mixed together in some

703
00:31:32,809 --> 00:31:37,240
way in the sky

704
00:31:35,049 --> 00:31:39,039
right so it's it's actually injection

705
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,529
and pretty close actually really

706
00:31:39,039 --> 00:31:43,059
interesting right and and so what I

707
00:31:41,529 --> 00:31:44,470
found to be most fascinating about these

708
00:31:43,059 --> 00:31:45,039
theories that the color blue didn't

709
00:31:44,470 --> 00:31:47,860
exist

710
00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:49,629
was just like the absolute lack of read

711
00:31:47,859 --> 00:31:52,479
it like the absolute lack of reading

712
00:31:49,630 --> 00:31:54,580
that was done cuz like Aristotle is like

713
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,640
one of three Greeks everyone is

714
00:31:54,579 --> 00:31:59,409
heard about I mean like how did you miss

715
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,930
Aristotle when you were looking for

716
00:31:59,410 --> 00:32:03,700
colors he's literally has a book called

717
00:32:01,930 --> 00:32:06,370
on the census where he describes the

718
00:32:03,700 --> 00:32:08,140
rainbow and the color wheel and he talks

719
00:32:06,369 --> 00:32:11,439
about blue and purple and green like

720
00:32:08,140 --> 00:32:14,250
it's fascinating to me like it's just a

721
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:18,100
swing and a miss hard swing and a miss

722
00:32:14,250 --> 00:32:20,170
bad work business insider bad work not

723
00:32:18,099 --> 00:32:23,500
great well maybe business insight I mean

724
00:32:20,170 --> 00:32:25,269
I if I look if I can logic dictates if

725
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:27,400
it's called Business Insider they're

726
00:32:25,269 --> 00:32:30,240
probably not gonna be too sharp on the

727
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:33,370
whole color thing not science insider

728
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:35,769
not nature and they're not alone there's

729
00:32:33,369 --> 00:32:37,389
so many of these articles out there oh

730
00:32:35,769 --> 00:32:40,269
my goodness is a huge number of them

731
00:32:37,390 --> 00:32:41,890
right no the the thing that I actually

732
00:32:40,269 --> 00:32:43,569
think the part of this I think is

733
00:32:41,890 --> 00:32:45,160
actually relevant and really interesting

734
00:32:43,569 --> 00:32:47,559
still regardless of the fact that yes

735
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:50,740
they had blue you know we've had blue

736
00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:53,200
forever is the idea of like the cultural

737
00:32:50,740 --> 00:32:54,549
stuff that we were getting into right

738
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,710
yeah absolutely

739
00:32:54,549 --> 00:33:01,480
Marie you brought up a great point which

740
00:32:56,710 --> 00:33:06,220
was you know blue wasn't very common

741
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:07,779
right no and so like where did we find

742
00:33:06,220 --> 00:33:10,450
blue in the ancient world really i mean

743
00:33:07,779 --> 00:33:11,710
of course the sea and the sky but think

744
00:33:10,450 --> 00:33:15,580
about it like if you were living in

745
00:33:11,710 --> 00:33:19,170
england during the Middle Ages you know

746
00:33:15,579 --> 00:33:22,000
you might not ever see the ocean right

747
00:33:19,170 --> 00:33:24,220
and even if you did it would appear to

748
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,660
be it would appear to be dark it would

749
00:33:24,220 --> 00:33:28,299
not appear to be blue it's not like a

750
00:33:25,660 --> 00:33:31,210
Caribbean blue right it said it would be

751
00:33:28,299 --> 00:33:34,329
very rare to see the color blue

752
00:33:31,210 --> 00:33:35,200
especially especially in the in the

753
00:33:34,329 --> 00:33:39,970
Middle Ages

754
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:42,580
and if something is rare scarce it is by

755
00:33:39,970 --> 00:33:45,880
Nature again if you're talking you know

756
00:33:42,579 --> 00:33:48,538
if we if we go with Business Insider if

757
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:53,519
it's rare and scarce it's more valuable

758
00:33:48,538 --> 00:33:59,848
so within the Middle Ages the color blue

759
00:33:53,519 --> 00:34:04,739
is now used more to denote wealth and

760
00:33:59,848 --> 00:34:07,979
nobility sure right so in they've it

761
00:34:04,739 --> 00:34:12,829
looks like they were able to cultivate I

762
00:34:07,979 --> 00:34:18,210
believe in France England and Germany a

763
00:34:12,829 --> 00:34:20,909
flower okay the word flower hmm

764
00:34:18,210 --> 00:34:24,210
which is a flowering plant native to the

765
00:34:20,909 --> 00:34:28,528
Mediterranean so they were able to use

766
00:34:24,210 --> 00:34:31,980
this this road this flowering plant to

767
00:34:28,528 --> 00:34:36,480
create dyes but again very in very

768
00:34:31,980 --> 00:34:38,940
scarce very scarce production and so

769
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,878
they were able to so the Kings at this

770
00:34:38,940 --> 00:34:45,148
time were blue all the way into the 15th

771
00:34:41,878 --> 00:34:50,568
century where you see Charlemagne and

772
00:34:45,148 --> 00:34:57,058
Louis quatorze you know with you know

773
00:34:50,568 --> 00:35:00,420
blue blue silk cushions blue robes blue

774
00:34:57,059 --> 00:35:04,140
and gold together signifying wealth and

775
00:35:00,420 --> 00:35:05,309
power and prestige so it's sort of like

776
00:35:04,139 --> 00:35:07,949
mm-hmm

777
00:35:05,309 --> 00:35:09,359
it's literally it's I mean it's

778
00:35:07,949 --> 00:35:10,469
literally because it's impossible to get

779
00:35:09,358 --> 00:35:12,750
yes right

780
00:35:10,469 --> 00:35:16,949
it requires a huge amount of this this

781
00:35:12,750 --> 00:35:19,768
plant to create the color blue right and

782
00:35:16,949 --> 00:35:22,588
the idea to but it's there's a scarcity

783
00:35:19,768 --> 00:35:24,899
of it in everywhere around you right cuz

784
00:35:22,588 --> 00:35:28,670
again like if food is blue you're not

785
00:35:24,900 --> 00:35:28,670
going to eat it because it is bad

786
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:42,139
yes blue ray agreed you see science can

787
00:35:38,130 --> 00:35:45,059
stop there with 711s blue raspberry um

788
00:35:42,139 --> 00:35:46,949
but yeah like so if it's food it's not

789
00:35:45,059 --> 00:35:50,579
gonna be good if it's if it's a flower

790
00:35:46,949 --> 00:35:53,759
it's perishable if it's a gem it's even

791
00:35:50,579 --> 00:35:55,680
more rare and more valuable and again

792
00:35:53,759 --> 00:35:58,528
like the water of the sky there's not a

793
00:35:55,679 --> 00:36:01,828
lot of ways to get to or make blue so it

794
00:35:58,528 --> 00:36:05,608
becomes the symbol of of

795
00:36:01,829 --> 00:36:08,400
of rarity of refinements and ergo power

796
00:36:05,608 --> 00:36:11,009
within within the Middle Ages and going

797
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:13,108
forward kind of see a little bit of a

798
00:36:11,009 --> 00:36:14,608
change you know moving into the

799
00:36:13,108 --> 00:36:17,818
Renaissance where and again you're

800
00:36:14,608 --> 00:36:21,239
you're able to have more access having

801
00:36:17,818 --> 00:36:24,659
more access to pigments but blue becomes

802
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:27,778
moves from sort of a social status of

803
00:36:24,659 --> 00:36:31,920
power and nobility almost to the

804
00:36:27,778 --> 00:36:35,278
ethereal or the the Virgin Mary shares

805
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:40,680
often seen dressed in blue so again it's

806
00:36:35,278 --> 00:36:42,989
representing purity or humility the

807
00:36:40,679 --> 00:36:45,449
divine is now blue which is again more

808
00:36:42,989 --> 00:36:49,039
of an association of the vast sky and

809
00:36:45,449 --> 00:36:52,338
sort of this this larger than human

810
00:36:49,039 --> 00:36:56,969
color you don't actually it strikes me

811
00:36:52,338 --> 00:37:00,630
really oddly is can you mat like can you

812
00:36:56,969 --> 00:37:02,369
imagine we often see this with there's a

813
00:37:00,630 --> 00:37:04,289
lot of this is kind of an interesting

814
00:37:02,369 --> 00:37:06,660
like I'm not really an obstacle illusion

815
00:37:04,289 --> 00:37:07,979
with this idea of a new color or a color

816
00:37:06,659 --> 00:37:10,858
you've never seen before

817
00:37:07,978 --> 00:37:14,129
mm-hm right and there actually is a test

818
00:37:10,858 --> 00:37:16,078
that you can do like something like if

819
00:37:14,130 --> 00:37:17,249
you there's an optical illusion that you

820
00:37:16,079 --> 00:37:19,019
can do it's on the Internet

821
00:37:17,248 --> 00:37:20,338
that's where I saw it a camera or the

822
00:37:19,018 --> 00:37:23,189
exact name of it at the moment but it's

823
00:37:20,338 --> 00:37:26,608
basically if you're if you if you close

824
00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:29,519
your eye and you look at like a red like

825
00:37:26,608 --> 00:37:31,469
a very very bright red square you just

826
00:37:29,518 --> 00:37:34,139
stare at it and you close that eye and

827
00:37:31,469 --> 00:37:36,088
you look at a very very dark blue square

828
00:37:34,139 --> 00:37:37,858
and then you open up both of your eyes

829
00:37:36,088 --> 00:37:40,318
and try to focus it like a center point

830
00:37:37,858 --> 00:37:41,639
between the two the colors will merge

831
00:37:40,318 --> 00:37:44,608
and it will actually create a new color

832
00:37:41,639 --> 00:37:47,038
that you've never perceived before and

833
00:37:44,608 --> 00:37:51,208
the reason that it happens is something

834
00:37:47,039 --> 00:37:54,809
like your eye your eye isn't your I

835
00:37:51,208 --> 00:37:57,358
can't your eyes can't get that color

836
00:37:54,809 --> 00:37:59,309
that hue on its own like if it was just

837
00:37:57,358 --> 00:38:01,170
on a piece of paper or something but

838
00:37:59,309 --> 00:38:03,839
your brain will mix them together to

839
00:38:01,170 --> 00:38:05,068
make something new it's right something

840
00:38:03,838 --> 00:38:07,708
I don't even know if it's true or not

841
00:38:05,068 --> 00:38:10,619
but the thing so I'm just spewing

842
00:38:07,708 --> 00:38:12,088
 or listeners but the thing the

843
00:38:10,619 --> 00:38:14,050
thing I find fascinating though I mean

844
00:38:12,088 --> 00:38:17,710
imagine Sriman

845
00:38:14,050 --> 00:38:22,660
Hey imagine you're a peasant in you know

846
00:38:17,710 --> 00:38:25,269
I don't know 14th century England and

847
00:38:22,659 --> 00:38:28,089
the King comes and he's wearing a deep

848
00:38:25,269 --> 00:38:29,130
blue robe that is a color you've never

849
00:38:28,090 --> 00:38:32,260
seen before

850
00:38:29,130 --> 00:38:35,920
mm-hmm really right like even if you've

851
00:38:32,260 --> 00:38:37,600
seen light blue because the sky you

852
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:41,470
might not have ever seen like a deep

853
00:38:37,599 --> 00:38:45,009
navy blue or royal blue that's me is I

854
00:38:41,469 --> 00:38:46,659
mean that in itself was probably a like

855
00:38:45,010 --> 00:38:49,540
an ethereal experience of just being

856
00:38:46,659 --> 00:38:53,170
like I don't know having something so

857
00:38:49,539 --> 00:38:56,009
completely new right in your vineyard

858
00:38:53,170 --> 00:38:58,840
vision a sense that we take for granted

859
00:38:56,010 --> 00:39:00,580
mm-hmm you know yeah agreed

860
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,050
I find it fancy I mean it's amazing it's

861
00:39:00,579 --> 00:39:05,259
so it's so weird

862
00:39:02,050 --> 00:39:08,140
and even more recently though Yves Klein

863
00:39:05,260 --> 00:39:12,730
yeah the artist the French artist which

864
00:39:08,139 --> 00:39:17,500
has like he actually so French artist

865
00:39:12,730 --> 00:39:20,829
painter worked and perfected what he

866
00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:22,690
considered and what I would say modern

867
00:39:20,829 --> 00:39:24,880
art historians to this day would

868
00:39:22,690 --> 00:39:29,860
consider the purest blue of all which is

869
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:33,550
called Klein blue and it's this it's

870
00:39:29,860 --> 00:39:37,349
almost painful to look at because it is

871
00:39:33,550 --> 00:39:39,940
this deep ultramarine and it is it is it

872
00:39:37,349 --> 00:39:42,279
literally makes the back of your teeth

873
00:39:39,940 --> 00:39:45,579
her and your eyeballs shake if you look

874
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:49,180
at it too long it's so it's such an

875
00:39:45,579 --> 00:39:54,849
intense color even like so he did this

876
00:39:49,179 --> 00:39:57,909
between like 1947 and 1957 so for a

877
00:39:54,849 --> 00:40:00,730
decade this you know this French artist

878
00:39:57,909 --> 00:40:03,159
worked on perfecting this the color blue

879
00:40:00,730 --> 00:40:07,809
and he would just do huge wide swaths of

880
00:40:03,159 --> 00:40:09,099
it on camp on canvas and even now like

881
00:40:07,809 --> 00:40:10,840
if you see it and if you see it

882
00:40:09,099 --> 00:40:13,179
replicated cuz of course it is now

883
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:16,750
trademarked and it's you know it's

884
00:40:13,179 --> 00:40:20,739
probably a Pantone color if you see it

885
00:40:16,750 --> 00:40:23,079
it is so visually different than other

886
00:40:20,739 --> 00:40:25,599
blue but it's it is almost physically

887
00:40:23,079 --> 00:40:27,309
jarring yeah and it's very cool but it's

888
00:40:25,599 --> 00:40:27,630
like I don't know if you'd want to suit

889
00:40:27,309 --> 00:40:31,529
me

890
00:40:27,630 --> 00:40:33,150
out of that it is it's really weird you

891
00:40:31,530 --> 00:40:38,550
know and it's such an again it's such a

892
00:40:33,150 --> 00:40:40,440
strange concept of yeah I don't know

893
00:40:38,550 --> 00:40:41,670
it's such a weird thing it's such a

894
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,159
weird thing Klein

895
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:47,340
yeah Klein himself even said his blue

896
00:40:44,159 --> 00:40:49,319
was extra dimensional and that it would

897
00:40:47,340 --> 00:40:51,930
like if you looked at it long enough it

898
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,970
would take you outside of your body and

899
00:40:51,929 --> 00:40:58,049
outside of the canvas so it was almost

900
00:40:53,969 --> 00:41:01,619
like a meditative an extreme meditative

901
00:40:58,050 --> 00:41:04,500
state but this color could actually

902
00:41:01,619 --> 00:41:07,529
drive you to which you know four colors

903
00:41:04,500 --> 00:41:10,050
is really you know something you don't

904
00:41:07,530 --> 00:41:11,670
think about necessarily but it's still

905
00:41:10,050 --> 00:41:13,140
really fascinating well you know it

906
00:41:11,670 --> 00:41:17,970
reminds me of have you guys heard of

907
00:41:13,139 --> 00:41:20,819
vantablack yet or vantablack no okay

908
00:41:17,969 --> 00:41:24,480
so vantablack is a it's a trademarked

909
00:41:20,820 --> 00:41:26,640
material it is owned by serene a no

910
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:29,519
system is limited and basically what it

911
00:41:26,639 --> 00:41:32,670
is is it's it is the darkest material

912
00:41:29,519 --> 00:41:36,239
ever created and I mean that I mean that

913
00:41:32,670 --> 00:41:40,980
literally it absorbs something like it

914
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:44,119
absorbs something like 99.97% of visible

915
00:41:40,980 --> 00:41:49,740
radiation mm-hm

916
00:41:44,119 --> 00:41:52,039
extremely toxic voids so you couldn't

917
00:41:49,739 --> 00:41:56,429
use it as black out NoHo it's super

918
00:41:52,039 --> 00:41:58,230
super super super what's it it's it's

919
00:41:56,429 --> 00:42:00,629
pretty pretty dangerous so what it is

920
00:41:58,230 --> 00:42:02,460
vantaa stands for so first off let's get

921
00:42:00,630 --> 00:42:04,410
it a little bit into how color is

922
00:42:02,460 --> 00:42:05,639
perceived I guess or like we got into it

923
00:42:04,409 --> 00:42:07,469
a bit we got it we got into it pretty

924
00:42:05,639 --> 00:42:11,779
well in the beginning um thanks to

925
00:42:07,469 --> 00:42:14,429
Murray's hard hard detective work but um

926
00:42:11,780 --> 00:42:20,190
talking about eyeballs about eyeballs

927
00:42:14,429 --> 00:42:21,960
again take that sorry dear list you're

928
00:42:20,190 --> 00:42:23,789
squeamish listeners out there of which

929
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,820
we have a few so the way the way that a

930
00:42:23,789 --> 00:42:28,110
material has a color is it's interesting

931
00:42:26,820 --> 00:42:30,600
because again this is a bigger

932
00:42:28,110 --> 00:42:31,620
philosophical question so there's

933
00:42:30,599 --> 00:42:34,949
actually kind of an interesting quote

934
00:42:31,619 --> 00:42:38,839
that I wanted to read that was this is

935
00:42:34,949 --> 00:42:41,500
from Galileo right so he he writes in

936
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:45,608
yellow statutory or the

937
00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:47,530
the assayer he says quote colors hold

938
00:42:45,608 --> 00:42:49,750
their resistance solely in the sensitive

939
00:42:47,530 --> 00:42:51,730
body so that I have the animal were

940
00:42:49,750 --> 00:42:54,460
removed every such quality would be

941
00:42:51,730 --> 00:42:57,340
abolished and annihilated so in other

942
00:42:54,460 --> 00:43:00,070
words Galileo believed that color was

943
00:42:57,340 --> 00:43:03,460
not a physical quality it was purely a

944
00:43:00,070 --> 00:43:05,380
conscious quality of human so we gave

945
00:43:03,460 --> 00:43:08,470
things color things did not have color

946
00:43:05,380 --> 00:43:10,450
on their own mm-hmm right so it's kind

947
00:43:08,469 --> 00:43:12,719
of that question of so Galileo in other

948
00:43:10,449 --> 00:43:14,649
words was not a was it was a color

949
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:17,469
functionalist I guess as opposed to a

950
00:43:14,650 --> 00:43:20,079
color realist right so the color

951
00:43:17,469 --> 00:43:22,209
realists believed that objects had color

952
00:43:20,079 --> 00:43:24,489
regardless of humans perceiving that

953
00:43:22,210 --> 00:43:28,179
color mm-hmm right so what is what is

954
00:43:24,489 --> 00:43:29,618
red red is literally a physical quality

955
00:43:28,179 --> 00:43:32,289
of an object as opposed to being

956
00:43:29,619 --> 00:43:34,030
something that we perceive but the non

957
00:43:32,289 --> 00:43:36,250
realists the functionalist would say

958
00:43:34,030 --> 00:43:38,440
that color actually only really has

959
00:43:36,250 --> 00:43:42,599
meaning in the way that we perceive it

960
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:44,769
but again because we very we so often

961
00:43:42,599 --> 00:43:46,838
don't talk about the way that we

962
00:43:44,769 --> 00:43:48,190
actually cognate or you know we don't

963
00:43:46,838 --> 00:43:49,588
often talk about the way that we

964
00:43:48,190 --> 00:43:53,470
actually think about the world

965
00:43:49,588 --> 00:43:58,420
mechanically it's very hard to pinpoint

966
00:43:53,469 --> 00:44:02,348
exactly what is red versus maroon versus

967
00:43:58,420 --> 00:44:05,829
purple versus blue right um and a good

968
00:44:02,349 --> 00:44:08,019
example this is when you think when you

969
00:44:05,829 --> 00:44:10,380
have a thought Murray or or DES listen

970
00:44:08,019 --> 00:44:14,559
let's desk you didn't say anything yet

971
00:44:10,380 --> 00:44:16,470
des when you think of something do you

972
00:44:14,559 --> 00:44:20,019
see it in your when you have an idea

973
00:44:16,469 --> 00:44:22,989
right like I know I need to get I need

974
00:44:20,019 --> 00:44:25,630
to get orange juice right or I want

975
00:44:22,989 --> 00:44:27,279
orange juice mechanically what does that

976
00:44:25,630 --> 00:44:32,470
look like in your head would describe

977
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:35,769
that process to us interesting um for me

978
00:44:32,469 --> 00:44:38,259
it's probably a list like I see it like

979
00:44:35,769 --> 00:44:40,119
I see the word okay okay

980
00:44:38,260 --> 00:44:42,910
no no so that's good let's just go you

981
00:44:40,119 --> 00:44:45,070
so you see you see the word I need

982
00:44:42,909 --> 00:44:47,618
orange juice you see that word weird

983
00:44:45,070 --> 00:44:51,010
like yeah like just orange juice okay

984
00:44:47,619 --> 00:44:53,190
Murray how about you well I would then

985
00:44:51,010 --> 00:44:55,640
say but you're going to put together

986
00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:59,929
like in your cosplay

987
00:44:55,639 --> 00:45:01,309
then I see like the amethyst yes you see

988
00:44:59,929 --> 00:45:03,169
so when you're like okay I have to do

989
00:45:01,309 --> 00:45:07,150
amethyst what's like do you see the

990
00:45:03,170 --> 00:45:09,400
color then oh absolutely whenever and

991
00:45:07,150 --> 00:45:11,930
probably even more when I'm creating

992
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:14,269
anything like when I'm drawing something

993
00:45:11,929 --> 00:45:19,399
or something like creating cosplay like

994
00:45:14,269 --> 00:45:21,409
I can have a pile of random crap and I

995
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:24,530
can see the finished product in my head

996
00:45:21,409 --> 00:45:26,359
okay and the color right the color

997
00:45:24,530 --> 00:45:28,940
though everything how it all mesh

998
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,769
interesting see now on the other hand

999
00:45:28,940 --> 00:45:33,349
which is sort of both right because

1000
00:45:30,769 --> 00:45:35,690
she's seeing it as she's seeing orange

1001
00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:39,860
juice as literally quicklist because I'm

1002
00:45:35,690 --> 00:45:44,030
a London list right which is very linear

1003
00:45:39,860 --> 00:45:46,970
so you're kind of saying yeah now on the

1004
00:45:44,030 --> 00:45:50,380
other hand I hear that in my head really

1005
00:45:46,969 --> 00:45:53,829
I I actually have a really hard time

1006
00:45:50,380 --> 00:45:56,420
like pinning down images in my head

1007
00:45:53,829 --> 00:45:59,659
never really hard time doing that but I

1008
00:45:56,420 --> 00:46:01,250
can hear things like I hear things it

1009
00:45:59,659 --> 00:46:04,219
when I ever thought it's my own voice

1010
00:46:01,250 --> 00:46:06,590
saying that thought to me I don't get

1011
00:46:04,219 --> 00:46:08,179
like a good image I don't get a vision

1012
00:46:06,590 --> 00:46:09,829
anything like that it's my own its

1013
00:46:08,179 --> 00:46:11,119
unless it's something I'm specifically

1014
00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:12,769
trying to remember the look of or

1015
00:46:11,119 --> 00:46:14,690
something like that and even then I have

1016
00:46:12,769 --> 00:46:17,420
a hard time with that it is always a

1017
00:46:14,690 --> 00:46:21,250
there's always a word or a saying or a

1018
00:46:17,420 --> 00:46:24,470
sound or something yeah see dressed and

1019
00:46:21,250 --> 00:46:26,980
we it's all context so in here kind of

1020
00:46:24,469 --> 00:46:29,059
also based on how your neurology is

1021
00:46:26,980 --> 00:46:30,829
scrambled up and yeah absolutely but

1022
00:46:29,059 --> 00:46:32,299
that's the thing we don't ever talk

1023
00:46:30,829 --> 00:46:35,569
about that kind of stuff to other people

1024
00:46:32,300 --> 00:46:40,400
so like you you know it was one of the

1025
00:46:35,570 --> 00:46:42,950
weirdest things for me was reading the

1026
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:49,099
reading like existential philosophy as a

1027
00:46:42,949 --> 00:46:50,659
freshman in college and thinking how we

1028
00:46:49,099 --> 00:46:52,190
were talking about how you know people

1029
00:46:50,659 --> 00:46:53,929
were reading these books and being like

1030
00:46:52,190 --> 00:46:55,490
I just don't understand what they're

1031
00:46:53,929 --> 00:46:57,769
saying cuz like I don't think that way

1032
00:46:55,489 --> 00:47:00,799
and I was like I think that way that's

1033
00:46:57,769 --> 00:47:03,110
exactly how I think right and getting

1034
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,730
into the sense of like you know how does

1035
00:47:03,110 --> 00:47:06,650
someone else's brain actually operate

1036
00:47:04,730 --> 00:47:08,960
that's a really interesting question but

1037
00:47:06,650 --> 00:47:11,420
anyways it's an interesting

1038
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,530
experiment ask ask the bartender next

1039
00:47:11,420 --> 00:47:14,240
time you're in a bar and really freak

1040
00:47:12,530 --> 00:47:16,550
him or her out and then get kicked out

1041
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:19,659
of the bar it's great after you've had a

1042
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:23,030
couple jello shots but absolutely so a

1043
00:47:19,659 --> 00:47:27,618
quick way to short-circuit that though

1044
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:31,580
is with idioms right so even in and this

1045
00:47:27,619 --> 00:47:33,710
again changes changes culturally right

1046
00:47:31,579 --> 00:47:37,730
so culturally you'll have different ways

1047
00:47:33,710 --> 00:47:41,659
of describing things using color versus

1048
00:47:37,730 --> 00:47:44,059
other cultures but Western idioms based

1049
00:47:41,659 --> 00:47:47,149
on color based on the color blue if I

1050
00:47:44,059 --> 00:47:50,179
was to tell you that somebody is true

1051
00:47:47,150 --> 00:47:53,059
blue you would know what that means

1052
00:47:50,179 --> 00:47:54,469
yeah hypothetically right hmm some of

1053
00:47:53,059 --> 00:47:58,670
them are a little dated I mean true blue

1054
00:47:54,469 --> 00:48:00,919
Madonna Madonna album excellent um but

1055
00:47:58,670 --> 00:48:03,490
you would also know but that is somebody

1056
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:08,900
who's very loyal or very faithful sure

1057
00:48:03,489 --> 00:48:09,489
mm-hmm right or or another one a blue

1058
00:48:08,900 --> 00:48:12,410
blood

1059
00:48:09,489 --> 00:48:15,858
what's a blue blood someone who's rich

1060
00:48:12,409 --> 00:48:20,868
what's a blue man a blue man lumen troop

1061
00:48:15,858 --> 00:48:24,079
twice you the rest of element is totally

1062
00:48:20,869 --> 00:48:26,030
true again yeah we kind of we ascribe to

1063
00:48:24,079 --> 00:48:28,670
colors like specific like green with

1064
00:48:26,030 --> 00:48:33,019
envy right great with your base colors

1065
00:48:28,670 --> 00:48:36,920
nice these things the blues yeah not

1066
00:48:33,019 --> 00:48:41,059
just the music but also but also to feel

1067
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:43,849
unhappy or sadness interesting blue so I

1068
00:48:41,059 --> 00:48:46,460
would say the blues and another very

1069
00:48:43,849 --> 00:48:50,720
famous blue object denim our blue jeans

1070
00:48:46,460 --> 00:48:53,780
are uniquely American constructs the

1071
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:58,579
blues oh yeah yeah came out of you know

1072
00:48:53,780 --> 00:49:01,040
came out of came out of America and so

1073
00:48:58,579 --> 00:49:02,420
did so did denim

1074
00:49:01,039 --> 00:49:05,989
well denim was made in France but the

1075
00:49:02,420 --> 00:49:08,210
idea of the popular arity of the jeans

1076
00:49:05,989 --> 00:49:09,529
what is there anything more American

1077
00:49:08,210 --> 00:49:14,389
than taking someone else with someone

1078
00:49:09,530 --> 00:49:17,650
else made and saying we made it that is

1079
00:49:14,389 --> 00:49:17,650
exactly America

1080
00:49:18,500 --> 00:49:25,230
jeans blue jeans but again American

1081
00:49:23,309 --> 00:49:28,259
constructs like when you say the Blues

1082
00:49:25,230 --> 00:49:29,940
or when you say blue jeans and you say

1083
00:49:28,260 --> 00:49:32,430
where are those things from yeah totally

1084
00:49:29,940 --> 00:49:35,639
unique Katy yet for better for worse

1085
00:49:32,429 --> 00:49:37,769
Katy had a boss who was from another

1086
00:49:35,639 --> 00:49:40,379
country and he didn't get idioms mm-hmm

1087
00:49:37,769 --> 00:49:44,190
and so he would say things like don't

1088
00:49:40,380 --> 00:49:47,730
put all of your eggs in one carton and

1089
00:49:44,190 --> 00:49:51,570
when when the cat's away the mice will

1090
00:49:47,730 --> 00:49:53,039
dance which is cute that's a much cuter

1091
00:49:51,570 --> 00:49:57,000
one than the mice will play

1092
00:49:53,039 --> 00:49:58,409
that's cute okay so okay so we kind of

1093
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,119
we kind of got into like a deep dark

1094
00:49:58,409 --> 00:50:02,420
consciousness hole which is good to kind

1095
00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:09,410
of the best hole to get into some ways

1096
00:50:02,420 --> 00:50:10,980
mm-hmm but that was out of the blue that

1097
00:50:09,409 --> 00:50:14,579
was strange

1098
00:50:10,980 --> 00:50:16,829
um but okay so the way that you actually

1099
00:50:14,579 --> 00:50:18,989
perceive color physically at least would

1100
00:50:16,829 --> 00:50:20,639
be through the rods and the cones but

1101
00:50:18,989 --> 00:50:22,949
the way that a material itself has color

1102
00:50:20,639 --> 00:50:25,379
is interesting in the sense that it's

1103
00:50:22,949 --> 00:50:27,419
actually the color that you see is the

1104
00:50:25,380 --> 00:50:32,280
it's the color that the material does

1105
00:50:27,420 --> 00:50:34,500
not absorb okay so when a chemical when

1106
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:37,530
a chemical bond of some sort gets hit

1107
00:50:34,500 --> 00:50:40,380
with a photon it will absorb some of

1108
00:50:37,530 --> 00:50:42,720
that radiation and the absorbance of

1109
00:50:40,380 --> 00:50:46,519
that radiation is determined by

1110
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:48,629
basically the the energy level of the

1111
00:50:46,519 --> 00:50:51,170
electrons in the orbitals that are

1112
00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:53,160
bonding the two things together and

1113
00:50:51,170 --> 00:50:54,539
actually that's really useful in

1114
00:50:53,159 --> 00:50:57,059
chemistry because it means that we can

1115
00:50:54,539 --> 00:50:58,679
shoot light at chemicals and be able to

1116
00:50:57,059 --> 00:51:01,079
get a kind of sense of what sort of

1117
00:50:58,679 --> 00:51:03,809
bonds are there so a carbon-carbon bond

1118
00:51:01,079 --> 00:51:05,219
always absorbs the same around the same

1119
00:51:03,809 --> 00:51:08,880
type of radiation no matter what

1120
00:51:05,219 --> 00:51:10,618
molecule it's in right so you can this

1121
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:13,760
is the basis of things like infrared

1122
00:51:10,619 --> 00:51:17,608
spectroscopy or really any spectra spec

1123
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:20,640
any spectroscopic tool is based on this

1124
00:51:17,608 --> 00:51:22,799
idea now in terms of physical color that

1125
00:51:20,639 --> 00:51:25,139
we observe this means that when you see

1126
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:27,869
a red object what's actually happening

1127
00:51:25,139 --> 00:51:30,059
is light is coming through the

1128
00:51:27,869 --> 00:51:31,088
atmosphere it hits the surface of the

1129
00:51:30,059 --> 00:51:33,670
object

1130
00:51:31,088 --> 00:51:36,759
and then the only wavelength of light

1131
00:51:33,670 --> 00:51:40,389
that isn't being absorbed by the object

1132
00:51:36,759 --> 00:51:42,869
is the red wavelength that then you're

1133
00:51:40,389 --> 00:51:44,558
seeing and picking up with your eyes

1134
00:51:42,869 --> 00:51:48,489
does that make sense

1135
00:51:44,559 --> 00:51:50,829
so yes light light beams come down they

1136
00:51:48,489 --> 00:51:52,329
get absorbed by a surface and then some

1137
00:51:50,829 --> 00:51:53,769
of those beams they'll get reflected

1138
00:51:52,329 --> 00:51:55,298
back and that's what's being picked up

1139
00:51:53,768 --> 00:51:56,258
by your eyes that's what you're seeing

1140
00:51:55,298 --> 00:51:58,119
okay yes

1141
00:51:56,259 --> 00:51:59,949
with the rods in the PS now what that

1142
00:51:58,119 --> 00:52:02,338
means though is that materials that

1143
00:51:59,949 --> 00:52:07,449
appear to be black or appear to have no

1144
00:52:02,338 --> 00:52:09,338
no color are actually um actually

1145
00:52:07,449 --> 00:52:12,308
absorbing a lot of light and that's why

1146
00:52:09,338 --> 00:52:15,248
black objects tend to get hotter in the

1147
00:52:12,309 --> 00:52:16,298
Sun mm-hmm then white objects because

1148
00:52:15,248 --> 00:52:20,978
they're actually taking in more

1149
00:52:16,298 --> 00:52:24,518
radiation now this material Vantaa black

1150
00:52:20,978 --> 00:52:27,848
or vantablack I guess it stands for

1151
00:52:24,518 --> 00:52:31,169
vertically aligned nanotube arrays and

1152
00:52:27,849 --> 00:52:33,729
so basically what a nanotube is is a

1153
00:52:31,170 --> 00:52:36,159
it's a carbon structure made up of

1154
00:52:33,728 --> 00:52:38,018
carbon carbon bonds in a big tube and

1155
00:52:36,159 --> 00:52:41,739
you can vertically align them onto a

1156
00:52:38,018 --> 00:52:43,778
surface by there's different ways but

1157
00:52:41,739 --> 00:52:45,429
like you can basically seed the surface

1158
00:52:43,778 --> 00:52:46,960
and then have them grow in a chemical

1159
00:52:45,429 --> 00:52:48,669
solution or vapor to position or

1160
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:50,889
whatever it doesn't really matter how

1161
00:52:48,670 --> 00:52:54,130
it's grown but the fact that these

1162
00:52:50,889 --> 00:52:56,348
carbon tubes are aligned next to each

1163
00:52:54,130 --> 00:52:58,269
other in this way means that when light

1164
00:52:56,349 --> 00:53:03,338
hits that surface it really cannot

1165
00:52:58,268 --> 00:53:05,108
escape so this is 99.97% of all

1166
00:53:03,338 --> 00:53:07,509
radiation in the visible spectrum is

1167
00:53:05,108 --> 00:53:10,298
being taken in by this material and then

1168
00:53:07,509 --> 00:53:12,998
not released so this is to date the

1169
00:53:10,298 --> 00:53:15,969
darkest material out there and if you

1170
00:53:12,998 --> 00:53:19,568
see it it looks very strange like it

1171
00:53:15,969 --> 00:53:25,239
looks it looks weird um so it's vent

1172
00:53:19,568 --> 00:53:29,528
vive black and chemistry actually has a

1173
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:31,900
lot of a lot of interesting stories

1174
00:53:29,528 --> 00:53:35,978
where we create new colors or we create

1175
00:53:31,900 --> 00:53:37,568
new hues or dyes or whatever right so

1176
00:53:35,978 --> 00:53:41,469
it's it's it's extremely interesting in

1177
00:53:37,568 --> 00:53:44,289
my mind yeah so yeah it is

1178
00:53:41,469 --> 00:53:45,730
yes but don't eat it first of all don't

1179
00:53:44,289 --> 00:53:47,170
eat it don't touch the reason why it's

1180
00:53:45,730 --> 00:53:48,849
so dangerous the reason that it's so

1181
00:53:47,170 --> 00:53:50,650
dangerous I see it why is it dangerous

1182
00:53:48,849 --> 00:53:53,680
it sounds so nice no the reason it's so

1183
00:53:50,650 --> 00:53:56,588
dangerous is that it's so these carbon

1184
00:53:53,679 --> 00:53:57,699
nanotubes are really small and so that

1185
00:53:56,588 --> 00:54:00,429
means that if they get into the body

1186
00:53:57,699 --> 00:54:02,500
they can be really irritating right so

1187
00:54:00,429 --> 00:54:05,108
thinking about asbestos like honestly

1188
00:54:02,500 --> 00:54:07,480
I'm saying it's dangerous half the stuff

1189
00:54:05,108 --> 00:54:09,880
you work with have no the majority of

1190
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:11,829
stuff you work with kills you it does

1191
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:14,019
just kill the thing is like with these

1192
00:54:11,829 --> 00:54:16,568
new what are you doing man what couldn't

1193
00:54:14,019 --> 00:54:18,400
you have just been a marketing my

1194
00:54:16,568 --> 00:54:20,920
problem is I don't my damn problem is

1195
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:26,858
you you with the with the with the with

1196
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:30,838
the nanoparticle death wish oh my god

1197
00:54:26,858 --> 00:54:30,838
that's the best speed metal band ever

1198
00:54:33,369 --> 00:54:39,579
oh my god tell me I might break a

1199
00:54:35,139 --> 00:54:41,078
theremin the so the reason it's

1200
00:54:39,579 --> 00:54:42,460
dangerous with all these like

1201
00:54:41,079 --> 00:54:44,349
nanomaterials like this we actually have

1202
00:54:42,460 --> 00:54:46,568
no idea if they're dangerous or not but

1203
00:54:44,349 --> 00:54:48,130
um like but they could be and that's why

1204
00:54:46,568 --> 00:54:49,929
we treat them as being dangerous but

1205
00:54:48,130 --> 00:54:53,050
this one in particular anything with

1206
00:54:49,929 --> 00:54:54,848
nanotubes and stuff it's like a lot of

1207
00:54:53,050 --> 00:54:57,039
the reason why breathing in like

1208
00:54:54,849 --> 00:54:59,500
particulate and soot and stuff is bad

1209
00:54:57,039 --> 00:55:02,380
for you is because it basically like

1210
00:54:59,500 --> 00:55:03,969
creates tiny scars on your lungs or a

1211
00:55:02,380 --> 00:55:07,150
king you know I can like get in and just

1212
00:55:03,969 --> 00:55:09,250
like mess with your system literally by

1213
00:55:07,150 --> 00:55:11,530
leaving physical marks and bruises and

1214
00:55:09,250 --> 00:55:13,780
scratches and whatever and so this stuff

1215
00:55:11,530 --> 00:55:14,859
is like asbestos times a million you

1216
00:55:13,780 --> 00:55:18,369
know I mean it's really really small

1217
00:55:14,858 --> 00:55:20,250
really really hard really sharp totally

1218
00:55:18,369 --> 00:55:23,250
bad for you

1219
00:55:20,250 --> 00:55:24,929
that would be the that never might I was

1220
00:55:23,250 --> 00:55:30,630
gonna make another joke about another

1221
00:55:24,929 --> 00:55:32,699
good band name so goddamn it so

1222
00:55:30,630 --> 00:55:34,380
basically though there is no reason to

1223
00:55:32,699 --> 00:55:36,568
think the color blue didn't exist before

1224
00:55:34,380 --> 00:55:38,280
the Middle Ages no and you know what

1225
00:55:36,568 --> 00:55:41,789
else in the reading which I thought was

1226
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:44,160
interesting color of Krishna I was gonna

1227
00:55:41,789 --> 00:55:46,050
bring that up actually that this you

1228
00:55:44,159 --> 00:55:47,608
know it's again it's a really

1229
00:55:46,050 --> 00:55:52,019
interesting thing I think it says more

1230
00:55:47,608 --> 00:55:54,449
about our um but see but I couldn't find

1231
00:55:52,019 --> 00:55:57,469
how early back do we have depictions of

1232
00:55:54,449 --> 00:55:59,368
Krishna as being or Vishnu as being blue

1233
00:55:57,469 --> 00:56:01,049
always blue I think

1234
00:55:59,369 --> 00:56:02,880
well not all right you know I don't know

1235
00:56:01,050 --> 00:56:05,579
that for sure but the majority of the

1236
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:07,349
representation has been almost an eve

1237
00:56:05,579 --> 00:56:10,560
Klein blue I mean it's it's like

1238
00:56:07,349 --> 00:56:12,869
interesting it's interesting to me again

1239
00:56:10,559 --> 00:56:17,039
this idea that blue didn't exist like

1240
00:56:12,869 --> 00:56:18,930
it's a problem of it's both a problem

1241
00:56:17,039 --> 00:56:22,440
like people misunderstanding I guess

1242
00:56:18,929 --> 00:56:24,989
almost how um I don't know like language

1243
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:27,260
works almost and then also a

1244
00:56:24,989 --> 00:56:29,789
misunderstanding though ultimately of

1245
00:56:27,260 --> 00:56:31,380
you know this Cano it's one of those

1246
00:56:29,789 --> 00:56:33,989
weird things where I think this is

1247
00:56:31,380 --> 00:56:37,740
partly why ancient aliens theories are

1248
00:56:33,989 --> 00:56:40,049
so popular and why even there's that

1249
00:56:37,739 --> 00:56:42,649
idea out there that the was it like a

1250
00:56:40,050 --> 00:56:45,750
whole century didn't exist or something

1251
00:56:42,650 --> 00:56:52,349
right oh god help us like it's the same

1252
00:56:45,750 --> 00:56:56,190
it's the same thing we're yeah no no

1253
00:56:52,349 --> 00:56:58,380
idea that like a king um basically got

1254
00:56:56,190 --> 00:57:00,659
rid of a whole century was like now it's

1255
00:56:58,380 --> 00:57:02,460
like the Year 200 or whatever because

1256
00:57:00,659 --> 00:57:04,529
they wanted to be on like a special

1257
00:57:02,460 --> 00:57:08,818
anniversary or something they wanted a

1258
00:57:04,530 --> 00:57:10,920
rule that's how you rule but um but it's

1259
00:57:08,818 --> 00:57:13,108
to me it's just it's crazy because I

1260
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,789
think it's harder for us to understand

1261
00:57:13,108 --> 00:57:17,880
these things now because you have so

1262
00:57:14,789 --> 00:57:20,699
many idioms you have so much reference

1263
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:23,670
and sort of this contextualization in

1264
00:57:20,699 --> 00:57:27,719
many different forms that can identify

1265
00:57:23,670 --> 00:57:32,608
blue right because it's like if you as a

1266
00:57:27,719 --> 00:57:34,348
21st century Westerner think of blue you

1267
00:57:32,608 --> 00:57:36,449
can contextualize it

1268
00:57:34,349 --> 00:57:39,869
multitude of different ways through

1269
00:57:36,449 --> 00:57:42,538
multitude of different means so that is

1270
00:57:39,869 --> 00:57:45,869
a different to your point a different

1271
00:57:42,539 --> 00:57:48,630
mindset a different time than someone

1272
00:57:45,869 --> 00:57:51,450
who doesn't have that same that same

1273
00:57:48,630 --> 00:57:53,548
prerogative right and we're also almost

1274
00:57:51,449 --> 00:57:55,528
this is and this is kind of a point that

1275
00:57:53,548 --> 00:57:58,739
always gets brought up with like

1276
00:57:55,528 --> 00:58:01,739
classics or philosophy or whatever we

1277
00:57:58,739 --> 00:58:03,539
are also a we're also at a point in time

1278
00:58:01,739 --> 00:58:06,749
or we have been since maybe the

1279
00:58:03,539 --> 00:58:08,430
Enlightenment or the Renaissance we're

1280
00:58:06,748 --> 00:58:11,088
also at a point in time where people are

1281
00:58:08,429 --> 00:58:13,548
wealthy enough and well-off enough and

1282
00:58:11,088 --> 00:58:16,828
Society is developed enough that people

1283
00:58:13,548 --> 00:58:22,460
can spend time worrying about questions

1284
00:58:16,829 --> 00:58:26,009
like this right that yes you know before

1285
00:58:22,460 --> 00:58:29,099
really literature literature as such

1286
00:58:26,009 --> 00:58:31,108
didn't really exist philosophy as such

1287
00:58:29,099 --> 00:58:37,170
didn't really exist right I mean we have

1288
00:58:31,108 --> 00:58:40,078
these areas where they happen right but

1289
00:58:37,170 --> 00:58:42,269
in some ways it kind of I mean you know

1290
00:58:40,079 --> 00:58:44,249
at least in Western thought

1291
00:58:42,268 --> 00:58:48,028
it all kind of gets washed away by the

1292
00:58:44,248 --> 00:58:51,058
Middle Ages right one story it was a

1293
00:58:48,028 --> 00:58:54,079
verbal story right so they probably

1294
00:58:51,059 --> 00:58:56,970
again had the same amount of descriptive

1295
00:58:54,079 --> 00:58:59,789
abilities but their frame of reference

1296
00:58:56,969 --> 00:59:01,949
would be foreign to us right right just

1297
00:58:59,789 --> 00:59:05,309
like us being able to have all these

1298
00:59:01,949 --> 00:59:08,429
different context of one different color

1299
00:59:05,309 --> 00:59:10,548
would be foreign to them yeah it would

1300
00:59:08,429 --> 00:59:13,078
just be a different set of a different

1301
00:59:10,548 --> 00:59:15,150
verbal set of cues that we would not

1302
00:59:13,079 --> 00:59:17,220
have any idea about it's very which is

1303
00:59:15,150 --> 00:59:19,048
kind of fast it's amazing to me I bet if

1304
00:59:17,219 --> 00:59:21,118
we went through like I bet we would I

1305
00:59:19,048 --> 00:59:22,768
bet we could go through really and look

1306
00:59:21,119 --> 00:59:24,900
with a fine-tooth comb and find out that

1307
00:59:22,768 --> 00:59:27,179
the same kind of logic that was used for

1308
00:59:24,900 --> 00:59:29,608
this could be used to prove that you

1309
00:59:27,179 --> 00:59:35,669
know the ancient people didn't have no

1310
00:59:29,608 --> 00:59:39,869
strawberries or they didn't have jello

1311
00:59:35,670 --> 00:59:41,548
shots roots fruits a hard one because

1312
00:59:39,869 --> 00:59:43,430
it's like the fruit that we think of

1313
00:59:41,548 --> 00:59:47,369
today is not at all what fruit was like

1314
00:59:43,429 --> 00:59:47,909
even a hundred years ago right so you

1315
00:59:47,369 --> 00:59:51,390
clicked

1316
00:59:47,909 --> 00:59:53,759
and stuff but you know yeah depends if

1317
00:59:51,389 --> 00:59:55,739
you're on Hawaii right if you aren't

1318
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,720
units in a tropical air and the bananas

1319
00:59:55,739 --> 00:59:59,368
even now are so much different than the

1320
00:59:57,719 --> 01:00:01,558
bananas you'd pick up at Safeway

1321
00:59:59,369 --> 01:00:03,000
absolutely yeah you know you know like I

1322
01:00:01,559 --> 01:00:04,530
don't know I bet we could pick out

1323
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,880
something and be able to go back and be

1324
01:00:04,530 --> 01:00:07,710
like well I thought I always thought

1325
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:09,539
that they had this back then and then

1326
01:00:07,710 --> 01:00:12,240
look and there's just no reference to

1327
01:00:09,539 --> 01:00:14,400
that thing right I mean I wonder how

1328
01:00:12,239 --> 01:00:17,038
many references there are for belts in

1329
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:18,420
the Odyssey belts you know I mean in

1330
01:00:17,039 --> 01:00:19,859
Homer's Odyssey like belts like

1331
01:00:18,420 --> 01:00:23,670
literally like the like the kind of belt

1332
01:00:19,858 --> 01:00:25,889
that holds up your pants right well you

1333
01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:27,030
would have some sort of like because it

1334
01:00:25,889 --> 01:00:31,108
would be the same sort of thing that

1335
01:00:27,030 --> 01:00:34,048
would hold a weapon though that's not

1336
01:00:31,108 --> 01:00:36,119
pants that's not a belt for pants a belt

1337
01:00:34,048 --> 01:00:38,130
would maybe have the same form and

1338
01:00:36,119 --> 01:00:44,099
function at that point yeah okay and

1339
01:00:38,130 --> 01:00:45,568
indigo is bloomery God blue Greek shell

1340
01:00:44,099 --> 01:00:53,309
over here for me

1341
01:00:45,568 --> 01:00:54,960
big big belt pan Marie you don't know

1342
01:00:53,309 --> 01:00:56,670
you know I'm saying right like I bet I

1343
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:59,429
bet we can go back and pick something

1344
01:00:56,670 --> 01:01:02,039
weird like an esoteric thing and go back

1345
01:00:59,429 --> 01:01:04,528
and look and see you know where was this

1346
01:01:02,039 --> 01:01:06,359
described anywhere you know and it's

1347
01:01:04,528 --> 01:01:08,730
just it's it's it I don't know I think

1348
01:01:06,358 --> 01:01:12,778
it's an interesting question so hey is

1349
01:01:08,730 --> 01:01:17,510
this what we're doing tomorrow control

1350
01:01:12,778 --> 01:01:17,510
elf belts control F belts in the Odyssey

1351
01:01:19,429 --> 01:01:25,949
belts knows the string count as belt I

1352
01:01:22,769 --> 01:01:28,170
don't know see no it's a string but what

1353
01:01:25,949 --> 01:01:30,419
the string is acting as a bell no cuz

1354
01:01:28,170 --> 01:01:32,849
it's no how do you define belts it holds

1355
01:01:30,420 --> 01:01:34,559
up I need to find blue now we have to

1356
01:01:32,849 --> 01:01:37,019
think about both Oh God we're all the

1357
01:01:34,559 --> 01:01:38,278
way around again you guys this is

1358
01:01:37,019 --> 01:01:40,559
neither here over there have you guys

1359
01:01:38,278 --> 01:01:43,079
seen the have you guys seen that thing

1360
01:01:40,559 --> 01:01:44,579
online where it's some guys like I was

1361
01:01:43,079 --> 01:01:46,289
waiting you know waiting in the dentist

1362
01:01:44,579 --> 01:01:49,230
office and then he just starts chanting

1363
01:01:46,289 --> 01:01:50,970
teeth oh god now right in the lady

1364
01:01:49,230 --> 01:01:54,329
behind the counter starts you know it's

1365
01:01:50,969 --> 01:01:57,058
like teeth teeth teeth teeth she starts

1366
01:01:54,329 --> 01:02:00,940
like banging going to Jade teeth oh I

1367
01:01:57,059 --> 01:02:05,050
find that so funny like it

1368
01:02:00,940 --> 01:02:07,380
no but this is again this is why I don't

1369
01:02:05,050 --> 01:02:11,980
go to the dentist I'm choosing um I

1370
01:02:07,380 --> 01:02:12,519
haven't I haven't seen that funny that's

1371
01:02:11,980 --> 01:02:14,409
really funny

1372
01:02:12,519 --> 01:02:16,329
are you sure about that that wasn't you

1373
01:02:14,409 --> 01:02:18,699
wanted me that's all that wasn't me

1374
01:02:16,329 --> 01:02:20,710
all right dear listeners thank you again

1375
01:02:18,699 --> 01:02:23,019
for joining the mad scientist podcast

1376
01:02:20,710 --> 01:02:24,849
what a weird episode this was a good

1377
01:02:23,019 --> 01:02:29,380
episode first of all happy birthday

1378
01:02:24,849 --> 01:02:30,760
Chris plenty of virtual jello shots and

1379
01:02:29,380 --> 01:02:33,190
which I hope you did many for your

1380
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:35,740
birthday and Dez thank you so much for

1381
01:02:33,190 --> 01:02:37,960
joining us and bringing this this this

1382
01:02:35,739 --> 01:02:40,929
rabbit hole of a question to our

1383
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:42,639
attention and also for all of the

1384
01:02:40,929 --> 01:02:48,159
awesome work that you're doing with our

1385
01:02:42,639 --> 01:02:49,929
fun with our fun t-shirts and super-fun

1386
01:02:48,159 --> 01:02:54,219
merch that we're going to be having soon

1387
01:02:49,929 --> 01:02:58,838
yeah and patreon and patreon love love

1388
01:02:54,219 --> 01:03:04,618
gifts people it's awesome it's awesome

1389
01:02:58,838 --> 01:03:04,619
stuff guys all right Oh group hug

1390
01:03:13,710 --> 01:03:15,769
you